you gotta love the internet... because of the current status of my fish, i typed into google "goldfish belly up alive" and this came up:

"HELP! My goldfish is belly-up and alive!?
For the past week or so my goldfish has been having problems. Every time I feed it, he turns upside-down belly-up. He's alive, but he just lays there like he cannot swim normally. Obviously something Is wrong, and I think this is a sign he might die soon. He's not old at all. Can someone please tell me what is wrong and what I might try to do to help him? I'm not overfeeding."

"Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
OMG, how many times must I say it, a fish thats upside down has gaseous inflation of the gut thanks to maldigestion and blockages, often constipation caused by infection or lack of dietary fibre.

Bacteria proliferate fore of the blockage,not usually aft, because contrary to popular opinion fish can actually fart, basically ferment the food in the gut, respire, causes gas, the intestines can hold more gas than the bladder, and the fish upends. Once they have a blockage they cant fart because their bodies are low pressure systems, and they dont use muscle contractions to fart.

There may be nothing wrong with the bladder whatsoever, but its a small organ, and the GI tract is huge, and if the GI tract fills with gas a swimbladder cant possibly compete. A fish with swim bladder failure does not upend, it cant, they sink or they float dorsal at the water surface, or swim on a tilt, a fish with a bladder expansion or rupture will still stay roughly the right way up, go to the top and stay there, or sink and flop about.

People shout "swim bladder" like they know what their talking about, as soon as they hear of a fish with any bouyancy issue, in reality, swim bladder failure probably accounts for about 2% of fish that get bouyancy issues.

The other 98% is down to gut inflation, and of that 98% percent, it splits roughly into about 75% maldigestion with bacterial fermentation, usually because of a lack of dietary fibre and .the other remaining 23% is bacteria or parasites damaging the gut or blocking it.

And of those incidences probably 80% of those are made worse, by overfeeding, stupidly small tanksizes with a lousy surface area affecting the fishs metabolism thus causing it maldigestion, temperature spikes, detectable ammonia and nitrite levels, and last but not least, having organ compaction from being dwarfed and small for their age which causes organ compaction thanks to having a proportionately huge liver, and make the effect of any gut swelling worse, and of course being a ridiculously overbred fancy in the first place with spinal curvature, a stupid rib shape, and compressed intestines.

PLEASE can everyone get that clear in their heads before I have a bloody stroke. Please learn to descriminate between symptoms.

So the checklist for an upended fish ie one suffering from inflation of the gut - NOT a swim bladder issue, is as follows.

1) Make sure tank temps hold steady

2) Stop feeding it or youll kill it, unless you want to try some blanched mashed pea for dietary fibre. Make the amount small and give it nothing but pea or another reasonable plant source high in fibre for at least a week. Remind the owner that for future maintenance its a good idea to use a good quality food, and to presoak it before giving it to said fish. That way food doesnt expand in the gut and cause issues, also make sure they include some vegetable matter in the diet regularly.

3) Stop telling people it will inevitably die, because thats just bloody thick, rude, and very worrying for the owner of a sick fish, who might, if you actually bloody bothered to give her the right sodding information in the first place, actually have a chance of saving it.

3) Check for ammonia and nitrite presence in ppm with a test kit. Any amount is a problem, counter with water changes that match the tank temps perfectly. Make sure nitrate is under 40 ppm. Damage to the gills from water pollution leads to less o2, lousy digestion etc.

4) Make sure the tank is big enough for the goldie, that should it actually survive, it might have a chance to grow normally ie not get gut issues in the first place. Thats 30 gal minimum, 100 gal plus for big ones. Filters and oxygenators are not optional, you have to have them, bloody big ones too.

5) If the cause is bacterial, try antibiotics under veterinary supervision, or failing that meds like furan 2 or maracyn might kill some bacteria and get the gut down to normal. Those fish blocked with worms need deworming, most commercial wormers also cause purges, which lets face it can be handy in this situation, perhaps something like a little panacur puppy wormer administered in a vegetarian agar . Fish will actually eat it. doses as recommended by weight estimates by a vet or just a couple of grains to get things moving.

6) Some fish will be terminally organ compressed thanks to dwarfing, stupid breed standards ,and yes they might well die, thats just bloody tough, and a good reminder to people to keep goldfish in the right sized aquaria in the first bloody place, and dont for a minute think buying the worst of the tall bodied ryukins, pearlscales and fancies is clever.They are immensely stupid breed standards and very few of them reach great ages.

7) swallowing air doesnt do anything to the bladder, goldies have a gular reflux much the same as you do, the bladder is sealed, and air can only penetrate it through osmotic tissue, when goldish swallows air it either comes straight out of the gills, and dont forget they can fart even if they do swallow air, it doesnt go to the swim bladder, and even when goldies take food from the surface it doesnt swell in the gut, thats a myth, goldies guts swell because of food that isnt presoaked, they take in dry food the gut is full of moisture, the food swells up causing the blockage, the blockage is solid not air, and the gas that does float the fish comes from fermentation in the gut. Just to be completely pedantic about it while im having a rant.
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So to recap, thats fibre, feeding technique, water quality, pathogens, tanksize, and temperatures.

Remember, butt up is gut, butt down is bladder, have we got it?

Sometimes its like the last 80 years of fishkeeping just got forgotten. Bugger me. No wonder your fish all bloody die, if thats all you know its hardly suprising.

Maybe the fish will die, maybe it wont, but it helps if you actually try help her, you pontificating, annoying, childish, RETARDS.
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To the asker - apologies for my tone, the ranting wasnt directed at you, the info is gold, and I sincerely hope you have good luck with the fish and that it survives.

ps really dont understand why that other dude copied and pasted my post, and swim bladder is swim bladder, if its not the swimbladder at fault its not swimbladder. Gut is gut bladder is bladder.

Christ im surprised half these people can use a computer.

Theres a reason I made the distiction, its because when people call things the wrong name they get misled, cock up the treatment protocol, give out godawful advice,and generally go around causing innacuracies in care that can be life threatening , the distiction is important. How you treat an actual swimbladder ailment is entirely different to treating a gut ailment.

Not that most of you lot could tell the difference, so dont bloody patronise me. When you start getting advice right, and start giving people a way to diagnose causes more accurately with a better understanding as I do, maybe then, you can criticise, until then, go pick your nose or something.

* 2 years ago

50% 2 Votes"

needless to say, i got my answer. i also found out that goldfish can have flatulence and that people are pretty animate about fish-keeper's lack of knowledge of these basics. crazy! but now i know. until then---